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	<title>Comments on: MediaWiki version statistics</title>
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	<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/</link>
	<description>News from the Wikimedia Foundation and about the Wikimedia movement</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TeMc</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8198</link>
		<dc:creator>TeMc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-820&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-820&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Respendent&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
          I think mediawiki’s lack of a true admin control panel is part of the problem. Even if there were a “dial home” feature, if it were located on a new special page, most people wouldn’t even know to look at it. Besides the difficulty in the actual upgrade process, the absence of a centralized admin management area is probably the biggest barrier to use of the software.
         &lt;/blockquote&gt;
I agree here. Though openness is one thing, intuitive management for a (technical) person is another.

Some kind of control panel, only visible to certain users would certainly be a hugh improvement and opens a lot of possibilities.

Though behind the scenes it could be another Special-page. It would certainly have to be accessable from another place aswell. Like the personal tabs on top, or the toolbox.

like my.wiki/Special:Management?page=component. Where component could be &#039;maintaince&#039;, &#039;extensions&#039;, &#039;skins&#039;, &#039;update&#039; etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="#commentbody-820"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-820" rel="nofollow">Respendent</a> :</strong><br />
          I think mediawiki’s lack of a true admin control panel is part of the problem. Even if there were a “dial home” feature, if it were located on a new special page, most people wouldn’t even know to look at it. Besides the difficulty in the actual upgrade process, the absence of a centralized admin management area is probably the biggest barrier to use of the software.
         </p></blockquote>
<p>I agree here. Though openness is one thing, intuitive management for a (technical) person is another.</p>
<p>Some kind of control panel, only visible to certain users would certainly be a hugh improvement and opens a lot of possibilities.</p>
<p>Though behind the scenes it could be another Special-page. It would certainly have to be accessable from another place aswell. Like the personal tabs on top, or the toolbox.</p>
<p>like my.wiki/Special:Management?page=component. Where component could be &#8216;maintaince&#8217;, &#8216;extensions&#8217;, &#8216;skins&#8217;, &#8216;update&#8217; etc.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Respendent</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8197</link>
		<dc:creator>Respendent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d also like to add in response to this post&#039;s actual subject that the fact that it took so long to release 1.16 may have skewed the numbers due to admins waiting for a gold release to upgrade. I know I didn&#039;t want to bother with the 1.15.x interim releases once I installed it the first time, especially after seeing the major changes 1.16 would bring. But then again I am fairly lazy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d also like to add in response to this post&#8217;s actual subject that the fact that it took so long to release 1.16 may have skewed the numbers due to admins waiting for a gold release to upgrade. I know I didn&#8217;t want to bother with the 1.15.x interim releases once I installed it the first time, especially after seeing the major changes 1.16 would bring. But then again I am fairly lazy.</p>
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		<title>By: Respendent</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8196</link>
		<dc:creator>Respendent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The strange thing is there&#039;s already a fairly straightforward user preferences CP, so the fact that there&#039;s no similar all-in-one admin CP just strikes me as strange. Extension management and usergroup permissions are probably the most annoying things to configure right now because of this. Having to manually edit the localsettings file each time seems so unnecessary. I do realize Tim and other MW devs have limited time and resources, but if there&#039;s one thing they could do to increase usage and lower the number of insecure installations, an admin CP would be an excellent place to start.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The strange thing is there&#8217;s already a fairly straightforward user preferences CP, so the fact that there&#8217;s no similar all-in-one admin CP just strikes me as strange. Extension management and usergroup permissions are probably the most annoying things to configure right now because of this. Having to manually edit the localsettings file each time seems so unnecessary. I do realize Tim and other MW devs have limited time and resources, but if there&#8217;s one thing they could do to increase usage and lower the number of insecure installations, an admin CP would be an excellent place to start.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick J</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8195</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 00:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d echo what Respendent said. Wikis in general follow the power law in terms of number of users &amp; number of edits - a very small number of high profile sites with huge volume, typically run either by active community groups/foundations or by corporations, and a long tail of much smaller wikis, typically run by individuals, with typically much less content, fewer edits, and fewer administrative resources.

It would be good to see a graph of age-of-MediaWiki-release-being-used versus number of users &amp; edits, but I&#039;d expect that there would be correlation there - i.e. smaller wikis running much older releases on average, versus larger ones run by active volunteers or employees having much more recent versions.

So the sites who most need to upgrade are likely to be the smaller wikis - and a great way to make that easier would be by having a control panel, showing:
a) if there were upgrades available [with an opt-out capacity, but probably enabled by default].
b) a GUI to configure the wiki to reduce spam.
c) list of recent additions/edits made by other people.

The current approach of lots of special pages provides a high barrier-to-entry for people who want to set up a simple wiki and have low a maintenance overhead. It&#039;s unlikely that people decline to upgrade per-se, rather more likely that they decline to put themselves through the perceived/anticipated grief of the upgrade process when there&#039;s no easy graphical way of upgrading.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d echo what Respendent said. Wikis in general follow the power law in terms of number of users &amp; number of edits &#8211; a very small number of high profile sites with huge volume, typically run either by active community groups/foundations or by corporations, and a long tail of much smaller wikis, typically run by individuals, with typically much less content, fewer edits, and fewer administrative resources.</p>
<p>It would be good to see a graph of age-of-MediaWiki-release-being-used versus number of users &amp; edits, but I&#8217;d expect that there would be correlation there &#8211; i.e. smaller wikis running much older releases on average, versus larger ones run by active volunteers or employees having much more recent versions.</p>
<p>So the sites who most need to upgrade are likely to be the smaller wikis &#8211; and a great way to make that easier would be by having a control panel, showing:<br />
a) if there were upgrades available [with an opt-out capacity, but probably enabled by default].<br />
b) a GUI to configure the wiki to reduce spam.<br />
c) list of recent additions/edits made by other people.</p>
<p>The current approach of lots of special pages provides a high barrier-to-entry for people who want to set up a simple wiki and have low a maintenance overhead. It&#8217;s unlikely that people decline to upgrade per-se, rather more likely that they decline to put themselves through the perceived/anticipated grief of the upgrade process when there&#8217;s no easy graphical way of upgrading.</p>
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		<title>By: Respendent</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8194</link>
		<dc:creator>Respendent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think mediawiki&#039;s lack of a true admin control panel is part of the problem. Even if there were a &quot;dial home&quot; feature, if it were located on a new special page, most people wouldn&#039;t even know to look at it. Besides the difficulty in the actual upgrade process, the absence of a centralized admin management area is probably the biggest barrier to use of the software.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think mediawiki&#8217;s lack of a true admin control panel is part of the problem. Even if there were a &#8220;dial home&#8221; feature, if it were located on a new special page, most people wouldn&#8217;t even know to look at it. Besides the difficulty in the actual upgrade process, the absence of a centralized admin management area is probably the biggest barrier to use of the software.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim Starling</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8193</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Starling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-815&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-815&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jon&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
          &lt;p&gt;First, I’m curious as to how those numbers reflect the real world.  I mean, according to that there is maybe a thousand or two installs of MediaWiki, tops? And are they unique hosts? or domain names? Or what?  Wikia uses 1.15.4 (as a base), and they’ve got a lot of domains.  Obvious the Foundation itself is excluded from these numbers too.&lt;/p&gt;
         &lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s a sample, the numbers are relative to the sample size, they&#039;re not absolute. The PDF indicates that they scanned the root path on 1 million .com domains, randomly selected from a list of 87 million domains.

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-818&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-818&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ellie K&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
          &lt;p&gt;Interesting and ironic that the WikiMedia Technical Blog uses WordPress.org. I would be curious why you didn’t use MediaWiki, though there may have been exogenous factors.&lt;/p&gt;
         &lt;/blockquote&gt;

They do different things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="#commentbody-815"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-815" rel="nofollow">Jon</a> :</strong></p>
<p>First, I’m curious as to how those numbers reflect the real world.  I mean, according to that there is maybe a thousand or two installs of MediaWiki, tops? And are they unique hosts? or domain names? Or what?  Wikia uses 1.15.4 (as a base), and they’ve got a lot of domains.  Obvious the Foundation itself is excluded from these numbers too.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s a sample, the numbers are relative to the sample size, they&#8217;re not absolute. The PDF indicates that they scanned the root path on 1 million .com domains, randomly selected from a list of 87 million domains.</p>
<blockquote cite="#commentbody-818"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-818" rel="nofollow">Ellie K</a> :</strong></p>
<p>Interesting and ironic that the WikiMedia Technical Blog uses WordPress.org. I would be curious why you didn’t use MediaWiki, though there may have been exogenous factors.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>They do different things.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellie K</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8192</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellie K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting and ironic that the WikiMedia Technical Blog uses WordPress.org. I would be curious why you didn&#039;t use MediaWiki, though there may have been exogenous factors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting and ironic that the WikiMedia Technical Blog uses WordPress.org. I would be curious why you didn&#8217;t use MediaWiki, though there may have been exogenous factors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael Dale</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8191</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is it controversial in our developer community? Has any developer stated that a &quot;dialing home&quot; feature with a reasonable privacy policy and config option to disable it is a bad idea? 

I imagine it just needs to be implemented?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it controversial in our developer community? Has any developer stated that a &#8220;dialing home&#8221; feature with a reasonable privacy policy and config option to disable it is a bad idea? </p>
<p>I imagine it just needs to be implemented?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Derk-Jan Hartman</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8190</link>
		<dc:creator>Derk-Jan Hartman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that as long as such a feature would be configurable, it is a perfectly acceptable feature to dial home at regular intervals. Likely MediaWiki would require a privacy policy for that feature though.

Having said that, i&#039;m not sure how many people will actually take action after being notified, if the upgrade process wasn&#039;t a &quot;click this button&quot; type of upgrade. I know I once stopped using software, simply because it too often tried to tell me I needed to upgrade.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that as long as such a feature would be configurable, it is a perfectly acceptable feature to dial home at regular intervals. Likely MediaWiki would require a privacy policy for that feature though.</p>
<p>Having said that, i&#8217;m not sure how many people will actually take action after being notified, if the upgrade process wasn&#8217;t a &#8220;click this button&#8221; type of upgrade. I know I once stopped using software, simply because it too often tried to tell me I needed to upgrade.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/07/30/mediawiki-version-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-8189</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techblog.wikimedia.org/?p=970#comment-8189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, I&#039;m curious as to how those numbers reflect the real world.  I mean, according to that there is maybe a thousand or two installs of MediaWiki, tops? And are they unique hosts? or domain names? Or what?  Wikia uses 1.15.4 (as a base), and they&#039;ve got a lot of domains.  Obvious the Foundation itself is excluded from these numbers too.

Also, another major difference.  If you don&#039;t upgrade Wordpress, you _will_ get compromised.  MediaWiki... you&#039;re safer (not saying you shouldn&#039;t, simply that it is much less likely).  Complacency is bad, but even still, Wordpress has been hit numerous times to the likes of which Mediawiki has never seen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I&#8217;m curious as to how those numbers reflect the real world.  I mean, according to that there is maybe a thousand or two installs of MediaWiki, tops? And are they unique hosts? or domain names? Or what?  Wikia uses 1.15.4 (as a base), and they&#8217;ve got a lot of domains.  Obvious the Foundation itself is excluded from these numbers too.</p>
<p>Also, another major difference.  If you don&#8217;t upgrade WordPress, you _will_ get compromised.  MediaWiki&#8230; you&#8217;re safer (not saying you shouldn&#8217;t, simply that it is much less likely).  Complacency is bad, but even still, WordPress has been hit numerous times to the likes of which Mediawiki has never seen.</p>
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